Prejudice against Weckl

[Dazzler]

"Anyone want to slam me? Steve???" ....Yeah flam, I'll have a go!! [img]wink.gif[/img] You said "his swing is not as "authentic" as Tony or Vinnie." How can you put Tony Williams and Vinnie in the same catagory when it comes to swing feel. Vinnies cymbal time and jazz feel IMO is not 'true' jazz, but a fusion (if you like) version. (See my earlier post for my thoughts). If you were to have named Tony, Tain, Max, Philly, Elvin, Billy Hart etc etc, these are REAL jazz drummers who don't cross over genres. I would say that vinnies jazz dialogue is coming from a fusion perspective. Yes he's got ridiculous chops, but his cymbal time I would say is lumpy and doesn't dance like a studied jazz musician. I don't know why this is, perhaps it could be that he plays in so many styles that he doesn't get booked to do that many straight ahead gigs. (Coreect me if I'm wrong - I'm sure someone will!)
[img]wink.gif[/img]

[McKenzie]

Hey Dazzler thought you wanted nothing to do with us guys who waste time talking about technique [img]tongue.gif[/img] which was not really the point I was trying to make earlier, just think we can nitpick these guys to death over relative non-issues at times bash the fusion guys for one thing the jazzers for another and the rockers for something else, it seems to go on at times when in reality it would be nice to have some of what they all got.

And technique is important I do believe, anyone accomplished will tell you used in the right manner and it allows you to create what MUSIC you desire to. Same old story, technique is innocent used properly it is Awesome, used improperly it is annoying but that it is the players choice and oh yeah we all got our own taste's. I like some things without alot of amazing technique and alot of things with it. I do think it is wrong to judge a type of music or player(not saying you are, be nice to me now!) because he has alot of technique or he does not, that should not be the factor in appreciating the music or the player.

I appreciate guys from both sides of the tracks, whether once amazes(technically) me more than the other. Heck my wife likes country ALOT, I DO NOT but hey I give them credit for being accomplished at what they do and some of the guys are pretty darn good musicians who in their genre make decent music it is just not my cup of tea, but it does not mean it is bad. I think some guys(not all of them) playing in different genres have quite abit to offer to the listener, I myself like I said earlier am trying to be more open minded, and give different guys in different styles a chance, I sure can grow in my ability to glean from different sources, hopefully I will. I sure need to listen to more of the guys you listen to, I do to a great degree but sure can dive into it more like others and appreciate what they are doing.

Take it easy and Best regards [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Digital Man(Kirk)

[PencilZ]

Excellent post Digital!

And dazzler.......theres one E and two R's in Correct i believe.(well you did say coreect you) [img]wink.gif[/img]

[leedaviesdrums]

we are destined to expect a Weckl vs Vin topic about once a month arent we [img]wink.gif[/img]

[benrand]

Roy Haynes,to me, doesn't necessarily "swing" but he playswith feel. Maybe Weckl is the same sort of technician as Roy, a guy who can play amazing stuff but it doesn't sound like Bill Stewartor Elvin or Jimmy Cobb.

Weckl's playingstill impresses the hell out of me, as does Roy's.

[Nikk]

I once witnessed jazz drumming great John Riley speak of Vinnie and Dave. He said something to the effect of:

"When I hear Vinnie or Dave play jazz, although they play the jazz BEAT really well, it sort of feels like listening to someone talk who has a really thick accent."

Interesting

[shedder]

great quote nikk.

[XNavyDrummer]

SLAMING: SHUTTING THE DOOR (to keep from having to deal with the brilliance)

[Geoff_G]

sheet, i loved Weckl when he was with French Toast & Bill Connors.

i think i agree with Frank here. i have a few buddies in St. Loius & they tell me that Weckl doesn't exactly seek out his fans...mebbe his personality isn't exactly extroverted they say.

[PocketPlayer]

These threads make good archives!

I've been really hitting the hands as of late and all I can say is Digital Man pretty much sums it up for me...these cats are REALLY good...not human type good. Even seeing our beloved Steve lay some tasty stuff down the other night, left hand flaming away. I then go to my kit..."Ahh, yeah, I guess I play drums, why don't my hand move like Steve's"

I respect the amount of woodshedding and confidence or faith it takes to push forward despite all the human limitations we all have. Dave, Vinnie, (fill in the blank) are do-ers, not taking a victim's approach to life. They have goals, dreams...but it does not stay in the head...it moves to the rubber souls of life. There are SO many great qualities to this approach to life.

What I LOVE about musicians is that it's all out there, for all to see...you can't hide behind your degree or title. Most of the world are posers...that's just the way I see it.
These guys are leaders...pioneers in some cases. Most watch TV and movies...few write screenplays and take the risk of rejection. Most are dreamers and that's as far as it goes.
See; The Rookie or better yet, October Sky...Rudy, and the funny perspective of Office Space--all commenting on the challenge of following your dreams and making them a reality.

Imagine if the areas of government, education, social service, and health services took the mindset of the serious musician. We wouldn't be wasting tax dollars for cats to fly on jets to play golf, only to write it off.
I work in education and it's a joke! There is SO much waste of tax $$ with no common sense and no real care...let's raise $10,000 from kids selling peanut brittle and buy computers. Oh...Gee...we don't have a computer lab and we don't have someone to teach the kids...so the PC's sit for 18 months only to become paper weights. Sad.

I work with a guy who plays guitar--well he thinks he does. When he drinks too much, he ALWAYS tells me he "coulda" been a great guitar player. Now he's 31 and it's getting really old. He secretly envies me because I can play an instrument at a decent level...not very good nor great, just decent...and somewhat passionate about it...and I've been doing it since I was 16. It is so hard for him to deal with this because no matter how hard he tries, he will be years away from competence at the gutiar...so he leaps into a fantasy world.
This is where SO MANY people really are...they just settle. Go into a Wall Mart, a Burger King...heck, your local bank and ask this one question;

"Are these people passionate about what they do for a living, eight hours a day, five days a week?"

Like my buddy, many create idols out of their favorite personalities and secretly live vicariously through them. It's acceptable with kids, but in a 31yo it's kinda sad. Yet, as Thoreau said, "Most men live lives of quiet desperation."

This is why I dig music-makers so much...When it's time to play the tune, either you gots it or you don't. No hiding behind an administrative degree, no 25 cent college words, no mumble-jumble...JUST PLAY.

I love musicians!

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ May 30, 2003 01:12 AM: Message edited by: PocketPlayer ]</font>